Muhammad Yunus, Nobel laureate, explains why creative capitalism in fact holds all the answers to improve human life, as told to B&E’s Neha Sarin
B&E : So are you trying to say that there is really no difference between Creative Capitalism and Corporate Social Responsibility?
MY: What actually is Corporate Social Responsibility?! It is something which started with the idea to help other people; but today, CSR has only become money to gain better public relations. You sponsor a cricket team, a rock concert, that’s CSR. The money goes to the R department and does not go to help poor people. CSR budget is now public relations money.
B&E What kind of government support did you get for your concept of Micro-credit and Grameen Bank? What are the kinds of hurdles you faced to achieve what you had dreamt of?
MY: There were so many hurdles. This was something new. So I knew it was very critical. The kind of words they used irritated me for a while. You had to give money to the poor women. You had to deal with them. You had to address unknown women. These were the hurdles we faced. Then there were legal hurdles too. Initially we did not have any law, which explained how you could lend money without any security. We did not have any banking structure like the government banking system had. When you took some money from the government, it puts some money in the bank @ p.a. interest of 5-6%. As a token of support the government deposits the money. But in our case, we did not even take money from the government. We took it from the borrowers. We take money from them and then lend them to the poor people. That’s how we have always worked, and worked well….
B&E: Aneel Karnani (a Strategic Management professor at Michigan University) criticises the whole idea and system of Micro-credit. He said that giving money to the ladies-folk creates all the problem due to the low level of education and women freedom in these societies. Do critics like him make your job more difficult?
MY: People come with different perceptions. If lending money to poor women make them laugh-at and criticised, let the people laugh. I don’t know what this gentleman sees wrong with it. But he may have some points. I don’t want to argue with that. But it does not convince me that he can lend money to the rich. See, in this world if you want to do something, people will criticise and say something.
B&E: Isn’t it risky that money is lent to poor people?
MY: That is not true at all. In Grameen Bank alone, we have a high rate of return of about 97-99%. Whether we work in India or Bangladesh or Somalia or Costa Rica, it does not matter. High rate of return has impressed people about micro-credit systems.
B&E: For how many people did you actually stand as a guarantor? And what was the amount you lent in total?
MY: There were almost 20,000 borrowers to begin with in the first place. And the total amount that was borrowed amounted to a massive 20 million taka (an average of 1,000 taka per head)!
B&E: With such a huge risk potential, didn’t your strategy backfire or at least weren’t you hesitant to some extent considering the possible negative outcomes?
MY: See, we trust people. It is a continuous system. We do well with them. So they come to us again. Then they stay back with us. We remind them. It is not a one shot thing. So there is no such room of doubt.
B&E: Which was the bank that actually helped you in the end?
MY: The bank is called Janata Bank. It is a government-owned bank and sits in the campus of the University where I teach.
B&E: So what kind of response are you receiving from the market today ?
MY: Yes, we don’t give advertisements in any form of media or newspaper. Yes if you talk about word of mouth we do. We write and people read about it everywhere. Through this, the whole world came to know. Thus the word spreads and naturally so. And about the response, the results are there to prove that it has all been really well accepted. Our model of CSR has done wonders; and that is what real socially responsible capitalistic business should learn to do. No business grows forever without the growth of the entire society and it’s time the global capitalists learn the truth…
B&E : So are you trying to say that there is really no difference between Creative Capitalism and Corporate Social Responsibility?
MY: What actually is Corporate Social Responsibility?! It is something which started with the idea to help other people; but today, CSR has only become money to gain better public relations. You sponsor a cricket team, a rock concert, that’s CSR. The money goes to the R department and does not go to help poor people. CSR budget is now public relations money.
B&E What kind of government support did you get for your concept of Micro-credit and Grameen Bank? What are the kinds of hurdles you faced to achieve what you had dreamt of?
MY: There were so many hurdles. This was something new. So I knew it was very critical. The kind of words they used irritated me for a while. You had to give money to the poor women. You had to deal with them. You had to address unknown women. These were the hurdles we faced. Then there were legal hurdles too. Initially we did not have any law, which explained how you could lend money without any security. We did not have any banking structure like the government banking system had. When you took some money from the government, it puts some money in the bank @ p.a. interest of 5-6%. As a token of support the government deposits the money. But in our case, we did not even take money from the government. We took it from the borrowers. We take money from them and then lend them to the poor people. That’s how we have always worked, and worked well….
B&E: Aneel Karnani (a Strategic Management professor at Michigan University) criticises the whole idea and system of Micro-credit. He said that giving money to the ladies-folk creates all the problem due to the low level of education and women freedom in these societies. Do critics like him make your job more difficult?
MY: People come with different perceptions. If lending money to poor women make them laugh-at and criticised, let the people laugh. I don’t know what this gentleman sees wrong with it. But he may have some points. I don’t want to argue with that. But it does not convince me that he can lend money to the rich. See, in this world if you want to do something, people will criticise and say something.
B&E: Isn’t it risky that money is lent to poor people?
MY: That is not true at all. In Grameen Bank alone, we have a high rate of return of about 97-99%. Whether we work in India or Bangladesh or Somalia or Costa Rica, it does not matter. High rate of return has impressed people about micro-credit systems.
B&E: For how many people did you actually stand as a guarantor? And what was the amount you lent in total?
MY: There were almost 20,000 borrowers to begin with in the first place. And the total amount that was borrowed amounted to a massive 20 million taka (an average of 1,000 taka per head)!
B&E: With such a huge risk potential, didn’t your strategy backfire or at least weren’t you hesitant to some extent considering the possible negative outcomes?
MY: See, we trust people. It is a continuous system. We do well with them. So they come to us again. Then they stay back with us. We remind them. It is not a one shot thing. So there is no such room of doubt.
B&E: Which was the bank that actually helped you in the end?
MY: The bank is called Janata Bank. It is a government-owned bank and sits in the campus of the University where I teach.
B&E: So what kind of response are you receiving from the market today ?
MY: Yes, we don’t give advertisements in any form of media or newspaper. Yes if you talk about word of mouth we do. We write and people read about it everywhere. Through this, the whole world came to know. Thus the word spreads and naturally so. And about the response, the results are there to prove that it has all been really well accepted. Our model of CSR has done wonders; and that is what real socially responsible capitalistic business should learn to do. No business grows forever without the growth of the entire society and it’s time the global capitalists learn the truth…
Source : IIPM Editorial, 2012.
An Initiative of IIPM, Malay Chaudhuri
and Arindam Chaudhuri (Renowned Management Guru and Economist).
and Arindam Chaudhuri (Renowned Management Guru and Economist).
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